So I just finished reading the infamous I Kissed Dating Goodbye. I was actually very surprised--he never once in the book used the word "courtship"! I wonder who was the first author/speaker/pastor to attatch the word "courtship" to the principles and methodology advocated by JH in this book.
Also, he looooooves numbered lists. Just thought I'd mention that.
And to be fair, this book in and of itself is NOT as bad as the things that people have done with it are. It would have been totally possible to read this book and come away with an approach to relationships that, while still fundamentally problematic, is far less extreme that the approach you usually see among IKDG fans. Which begs the question, has anything been done to address these excesses? I can't find much evidence of it. I think this book desperately needs a new edition with updated examples (for instance, he talks about letter writing with that one girl he met at camp. How would such a situation differ today with e-mail, Facebook, etc.?) and that also addresses the problems that result from kissing dating goodbye, especially in the extremist courtship form. Because, if people want to refrain from dating, that is their personal choice. But they need to be aware that non-dating will NOT make them immune to emotional pain, immaturity, temptation, and (gasp) it might even make them miss out on God's timing for their lives. And don't I know it.
Anyways. More detail to come!
-Violet
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7 comments:
I'm pretty sure the whole courtship thing was detailed in Boy Meets Girl, Harris' story of how he met and married his wife Shannon.
But there are other proponants of courtship, some of whom were around long before Josh Harris popularized these ideas. One individual by whom Harris was no doubt influenced is Bill Gothard, who advocated courtship as early as the late 1960s. Josh Harris' family subscribed to at least some of Gothardism, so it'd be hard to believe that Josh (and his father) had never seen Bill Gothard's booklet/pamphlet on courtship prior to Josh's writing IKDG.
Ah yes. Bill Gothard. Isn't it true that he never was married? Perhaps not the best person, then, to give advice on relationship methods :) :) I've heard a lot about Bill Gothard, but never actually sat through one of the Basic Life seminar things. I'll definitely add Boy Meets Girl and some Gothard courtship stuff to my reading list. In Boy Meets Girl, how specific does JH get about exact courtship methods? Some courting families are really rigid in their methodology of courting, and I'd love to know where this systematic, cut & dried aspect originated.
One good book on Bill Gothard is a book titled "A Matter of Basic Principles: Bill Gothard & the Christian Life" written by Don Veinot. This book certainly exposes Gothard's other side. From what I have seen, his "ministry" is a mere shadow of what it was at one time and yes he never married and is at least in his 60's if not older.
Thus I agree with you that Gothard isn't probably the best person to take advice from on marriage etc. Unfortunately despite Gothard's ministry being almost gone what he taught continues and it at least some of it still taught by others including Harris.
I would agree with you that how the book reads isn't nearly as severe as how it is typically practiced. This is what happens when one moves to legalism on something like this. Sadly no one, including Harris, has done something to try and counteract this. In fact in one interview Harris said:
"This was never my intention but some people have taken the message of I Kissed Dating Goodbye and made it something legalistic-a set of rules. That’s something that’s beyond my control and it’s disappointing at times"
One would think if Harris really wanted to counteract this or provide a more balanced approach he could do something about it but sadly hasn't. My opinion is that many people abandoned "kissing dating" after seeing it implemented so legalistically. Unfortunately they abandoned the good along with the bad.
Harris wrote this book telling his story of what worked for him. It baffles me that so many people assumed that what worked for him others should copy despite differences in age, maturity etc.
Steve
www.ikdg.wordpress.com
Totally--not to judge JH, but he really needs to publish a second edition, or a sequel, or something. The thing is that he followed courtship and STILL ended up getting married (ah the happy few!) and thus is probably kind of blind to the poor suffering 20-somethings for whom Mr. or Miss Right has not yet materialized. I mean, when a system works for you, why would you doubt it?
It's interesting that he says peoples' responses to his book are "beyond [his] control." I think whenever someone communicates with others through the written word (or any other medium) they ARE in some sense responsible for what happens as a result of their message.
I especially agree with your last paragraph--when JH wrote this book, he was freaking 21. And from what I understand he never even went to college. Now, we're not going to get into MY age here, but why should he be considered such an authority when he was too young to have really tested his system out?
I actually think there are a lot of specific reasons that people feel attracted to this book. I'm going to post about those eventually!
I will be curious to hear your thoughts on why people are attracted to this book.
I agree with you that what worked for a 21 year old doesn't mean it should apply to older singles. Also, there may be a period of time to not date but that doesn't mean one should never date.
One thing to realize with Harris is that he met and married a girl who worked at the church he was working at. He wasn't the Sr. Pastor of the church at that time but was employed there. Few of us are in this type of environment where we can so easily meet the person we will marry.
Harris has written a number of books so you think if he wanted to he could come up with a revised book. Of course this assumes Harris sees and acknowledges the problems IKDG has caused.
"Few of us are in this type of environment where we can so easily meet the person we will marry."
Heh. Don't I know it.
"Also, there may be a period of time to not date but that doesn't mean one should never date."
This is something I'll hopefully be talking about a lot--defining that "cut-off point." Of course I know that every person is different and if I had a like 13-year-old I'm sure I wouldn't want them to "date," but it was always drilled into my head that dating in high school is bad. Period. No exceptions.
I don't think this is true across the board, however. I mean, I obviously wasn't ready for dating in high school because at age 15, American Girl dolls were still a major part of my free time (I kid you not.) But had I been given opportunities to BE more mature as a teenager, I might have been mature enough to date. One of my biggest hopes is that if I ever have kids, they will be capable of dating in a good way prior to high school graduation. Because that high-school-cut-off-point rule may SEEM good (obviously, you don't get married in high school so why bother, etc.) but that non-dating period tends to drag on and on and on as people struggle to realize that certain emotions and feelings are "OK" now when they weren't before...it's wierd. And again, I'm not saying you should let your 12-year-olds date or anything, but that perhaps delaying ALL dating until high school graduation isn't the wisest option either.
Anyways, more on this later. And on the reasons people are attracted to IKDG...all shall be told in July! :)
If nothing else it is good to realize that everyone is different and there shouldn't be a one size fits all. Unfortunately that is how one typically sees IKDG applied. For example, you see something that might be the norm for teenagers being imposed on older singles. Another examples is how parents know that some of their children are more responsible than others and can give some children more latitude.
Again the word "dating" needs to be defined. I can see the point about boyfriend/girlfriend relationships maybe not being the best for high school aged kids. Some could call that "dating." On the other hand if it can be done with purity I think there could a lot of value for those in high school doing things at times one on one with those of the opposite sex. There also is some value in doing things in groups.
As singles move out of the teenage years and maturity happens then some form of dating would make even more sense.
With a lot of this there should be more guidelines then hard and fast rules that typically are imposed with IKDG.
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