Dear readers, I now wish to announce to you my goal for another "series" on this blog: a personal discussion of/response to Joshua Harris's book I Kissed Dating Goodbye. But first I have a confession to make. Although I've read bits & pieces of this book in the past and am very familiar with its general concepts & effects, I don't think I've ever actually sat down and read the entire thing! *runs away and hides* So I've started reading through it, and I really want to start a series of posts looking at this book in depth, evaluating JH's ideas and sharing the (a clue: negative) effects that these ideas have had in my family and community.
Obviously, IKDG has been around for a while (because at one point he talks about VCRs! Gosh!) and while it is not the only anti-dating book out there, has certainly been very influential in setting the whole courtship trend. So I've dug out our family's copy, which has random parts underlined in pencil by an unknown entity which I thought was maybe my mom, until I came across a comment written in the margin which was in a handwriting I did not recognize AT ALL. Weird. But anyway. When I finish reading the entire thing (it's a pretty quick read though) I shall be posting about almost everything in it! Smart love, the gift of singleness, the shopping cart of doom, it's all happening, right here!
I've been partially inspired in this effort by this blog: http://ikdg.wordpress.com/. I hope this guy won't mind if I quote him a little bit (cited, of course)--his basic point is that some of what JH says in IKDG can be helpful for younger teenagers, but that when the book is applied to older singles it causes a lot of problems. Which I would totally agree with.
I haven't decided yet whether to just go through the book chapter by chapter, or go for more of a topical approach. I'm sort of leaning towards the former at this point.
So I think that's everything about it, except for one small yet crucial detail. I'm leaving very shortly on a short- (actually kind of long-) term missions trip, and I probably won't have much time to work on this while I'm there. However, I'll be back in late July, and hopefully ready to jump right into it! (My goal is to get the first installment or two up before I leave though.) So, pray do not abandon this blog--it is merely a temporary delay. And please feel free to share your opinions, critiques, testimonies, etc. I am actually super-excited about doing this!
Oh, and the name of the series will be: "Alternate Realities: A Response to Joshua's Harris's I Kissed Dating Goodbye."
Long titles ftw!
-Violet
skip to main |
skip to sidebar
Followers
- adult children (4)
- America (2)
- appearances (2)
- betrothal (1)
- Bill Gothard (1)
- books (5)
- C. S. Lewis (1)
- chaperones (1)
- childhood (1)
- Christianity (2)
- clothes (2)
- college (1)
- conservatism (3)
- control issues (5)
- courtship (19)
- dating (16)
- dolls (2)
- dreams (1)
- drugs (1)
- emotional purity (2)
- emotions (1)
- Facebook (3)
- families (3)
- family (2)
- fathers and daughters (1)
- femininity (1)
- feminism (1)
- final exams (1)
- Francis Chan (1)
- friends (1)
- God (2)
- groups (1)
- guys (1)
- high school (1)
- home businesses (1)
- homeschool graduations (1)
- homeschooling (3)
- honesty (1)
- How To Train Your Dragon (1)
- humor (2)
- hypocrisy (1)
- I Kissed Dating Goodbye (6)
- introversion (3)
- Jane Austen (1)
- John Lennon (1)
- Joshua Harris (5)
- lameness (1)
- legalism (4)
- loneliness (2)
- love (1)
- marriage (3)
- maturity (2)
- Meg (4)
- modesty (3)
- mothers (1)
- mothers and daughters (2)
- movies (3)
- music (1)
- nomenclature (2)
- non-sequiturs (1)
- parents (4)
- poetry (1)
- purity (4)
- randomness (1)
- relationships (3)
- safety (1)
- SAHMs (1)
- sarcasm (3)
- sex (3)
- sheltration (2)
- sin (1)
- singleness (4)
- smart love (1)
- social interaction (4)
- society (3)
- teenagers (2)
- the 60s (1)
- the Beatles (1)
- the Christian bubble (3)
- the female gaze (1)
- the Internet (2)
- the shopping cart of doom (1)
- the via media (1)
- vicious cycles (1)
- Violet (28)
- work (1)
12 comments:
You might find my blog of interest where I critique Josh Harris's book.
www.ikdg.wordpress.com
I Kissed Dating Goodbye: Wisdom or Foolishness?
Unfortunately Josh Harris is quick to point out the problems with dating but reluctant to share any of the problems with his approach.
Hope this helps.
Sorry
I didn't see your reference to my blog before my first post. Go ahead and quote my blog if you wish. Thanks for the compliment.
My other big concern about "kissing dating goodbye" is that it has caused its own set of problems that those who promote IKDG don't seem to be willing to admit and thus have never really been addressed. These problems include those that happened at Josh Harris's own church that he is now Sr. Pastor of. If nothing realize IKDG isn't necesarily a "perfect" or always better option to dating. My experience is that IKDG teaches singles to avoid relating to those of the opposite sex vs. learning how to properly relate.
One other thing is to figure out what you are kissing goodbye. Harris never really seems to define this in his book. Dating can mean a number of things. It appears that he is more opposed to premature/young romantic relationships than all forms of "dating."
I am looking forward to reading your posts and people's comments about IKDG.
Hey, you're welcome, Steve! Thanks for posting! I'm trying very hard to be good and fair and not start talking all about IKDG until I read the whole thing, but I simply must say now that I am getting that same impression that you mentioned: "Harris never really seems to define [dating] in his book." I'm on chapter 5 now, and he's talked a ton about mistakes he has seen dating couples make, but not once has he actually sat down and sat, "Dating is X,Y or Z." It's more the approach of "I'm going to give a bunch of extreme examples instead of actually formulating a balanced definition" type thing. Sure, I agree that dating couples who rent a hotel room, get over-obsessed with themselves, etc., are making the wrong choices, but aren't there dating couples who make good choices too? Why should the mistakes of some random friends of Joshua Harris cancel out the many Christian couples who have dated and still maintained the right boundaries? It seems to me like the problem is not with dating in general, but with these individual people that he mentions. It's like saying "Some random person in northwestern Montana dropped an apple on his friend's head and hurt him, so nobody in the US is allowed to eat fruit." I wish that JH, instead of saying "I kissed DATING goodbye" would say something like "I kissed premarital sex/obsession/using the other person goodbye" because that is what the real problem is--not dating itself. And, as you say, non-dating creates a TON of problems that very few people seem to care about or even acknowledge. I hope to share a lot of these problems, because the vast majority of them have happened to me or to someone that I know.
Here is one good discussion of "kissing dating goodbye:"
http://drjames.blogspot.com/2009/06/ever-kiss-dating-goodbye-and-regret-it.html
The person talks about how IKDG causing him to not have good social skills with women. That is certainly one problem with "kissing dating goodbye."
I do have a blog entry that asks what is dating and what did Josh Harris supposedly "kiss goodbye." That might help on the definition.
I also sometimes think that those who promote IKDG exaggerate the problems with "kissing dating goodbye" to promote their alternative.
Hey Steve, the link to the article on the other guy's blog doesn't work for me. Do you know why that might be? And I definitely agree that KDG majorly impairs a lot of people's social skills with the opposite sex. Mine very much included.
It appears that the link is correct
http://drjames.blogspot.com/2009/06/ever-kiss-dating-goodbye-and-regret-it.html
You might have to cut and paste the link into your browser. Below I am trying to use HTML for the link:
Regret Kissing Dating Goodbye
If neither of the above work try a Google search using "regret kissing dating goodbye" as the search item and I am sure you will find the article.
Hey, finally got to the Relevant mag article! It was amazing, but I agree with the "Dr. James" blogger who pointed out the "weak punch" in the last 2 paragraphs. This poor guy! I do not think that his awkwardness and lack of initiative is his fault, because pretty much everyone I know who's never dated (including myself) is like that. There are several non-dating girls in my community, and while a very select few of them have managed to break the cycle and find a husband and/or fiance, the vast majority of us are stuck in what I often call "the pool of single (my city) women." As he describes, we are awkward around the opposite sex, unsure of how to talk to them, and struggle a lot with "natural insecurity" and "confidence and self-esteem issues." And I totally relate with that schoolteacher whose year of non-dating "turned into two years, then three years, and now 10." This is just wrong. I don't know very many non-dating guys, but I would imagine that non-dating fosters the passivity and insecurity that he describes. The Relevant mag writer errs in ascribing these characteristics to his normality. God created us to desire the opposite sex and His plan for the vast majority of us is marriage, not this sort of perpetual childhood in which we sit around waiting for "the one" to materialize on our front doorstep, or where we hide away from the opposite sex because we think we are "not ready" for marriage. How much more "ready" to we have to be? This guy is not naturally so awkward and passive--I honestly think that the non-dating thing is to blame.
Here are couple more articles with a number of comments. These are both by the same group with one person arguing for IKDG and the other against:
http://www.boundlessline.org/2009/07/i-kissed-dating-goodbye-12-years-later.html
http://www.boundlessline.org/2009/07/in-defense-of-i-kissed-dating-goodbye.html
The first article even references the other.
I have see where "kissing dating goodbye" has made some women harder to approach and less open to meeting a person. The avoidance of romantic attachments that Harris promotes might make sense for a teenager but as you get older you don't to be that way if you want to get married. Sadly you see women in the 20's and older that are this way making their chance of marriage low.
I have also seen where "kissing dating goodbye" has made men passive as you indicate.
As I said before, it is sad that those who promoted "kissing dating goodbye" don't acknowledge these problems. Not acknowledging them pretty much prevents these problems from being solved.
Interesting articles. I see where they're going with the whole "don't-blame-Joshua-Harris-for-your-problems" thing. But for a lot of us, it was our parents that read his book and decided FOR us that dating was bad. When religious leaders like JH and even our own parents are telling us not to date, what happens to us as a result is to some to degree their fault, and in a sense we are victimized by these false ideas and "misapplications."
Honestly, I think the bad results of IKDG, even if they were unintended, are VERY serious. They don't know how many people they have trapped in perpetual childhood and how many good, godly marriages they have prevented. Like you say, these problems need to be addressed.
Interesting how you mention parents. From what I have heard parents that were so wild before they married and maybe before they became Christians are typically the ones that will want to be the most restrictive on their children. That may be what is driving some of the parents actions.
I am sure the bad results weren't intended but that doesn't make what has happened any better. I have seen places where IKDG is taught and there seemed to be quite a number singles not getting married. It is too bad a lot of groups don't make the connection.
"From what I have heard parents that were so wild before they married and maybe before they became Christians are typically the ones that will want to be the most restrictive on their children."
I've heard that too. But from what I can gather I don't think my parents were especially wild, even though they were both raised in non-Christian homes. Of course my family WOULD defy easy categorization >:(
"I have seen places where IKDG is taught and there seemed to be quite a number singles not getting married. It is too bad a lot of groups don't make the connection."
Seriously, why don't these groups (or families, for that matter) SEE the correlation going on there? Are they just in denial? Do they truly believe that courting is The Biblical Way and that God is rewarding these young people's efforts with The Gift of Singleness? Do they still see these 20-somethings as being children and thus don't feel a need for them to get on with their lives? Or do they simply want to avoid the emotional upheaval of admitting that a system they based their kids' lives on has serious flaws?
"Seriously, why don't these groups (or families, for that matter) SEE the correlation going on there? Are they just in denial? Do they truly believe that courting is The Biblical Way and that God is rewarding these young people's efforts with The Gift of Singleness? "
Well one problem I see is that many pastors hear what they want to hear on this. That is they want to hear how good things are with "kissing dating goodbye" and so that is what they hear an believe. Thus when leaders and thus parents are convinced in their mind that IKDG is a better "alternative" with no problems these problems will continue.
One person told me once that acknowledging that there is a problem puts one a good ways to towards solving the problem. Unfortunately when one is in denial there is little hope of solving a problem.
Despite what some may think I am not in favor of totally abandoning all that "kissing dating goodbye" teaches. My push would be to take what works and correct what doesn't work. Perhaps it would be more of a hybrid of the two.
Post a Comment